Insider info on Noodler's Ink

Sara suggested I make a post about this. It seems that Noodler's Ink is extremely acidic.

I was in Montreal yesterday and I got to talking to Robert Culmer of La Maison du Stylo (one of the best pen shops on the planet, opened since the 1940s) and he was shocked that anyone would be using Noodler's in fountain pens. It is extremely acidic and tells me he's stoped counting the number of feeders and sceals he's had to replace on fountain pens that had been filled with Noodler's. To him (and he's been doing this for 50+ years) the best ink for fountain pens is Quink by Parker because it is more liquid and less acidic than almost all the other inks out there. Second best is Waterman's, that is less liquid, but non-acidic.

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There is a Pen Repair guru

There is a Pen Repair guru in the US that says using Noodler's or one other ink will cancel his repair warranty.
I'll go research and post more later.

I am really glad I heard

I am really glad I heard about this... I have been debating on purchasing a REAL fountain pen and repairing my antique ones... :D I think this will be a popular thread - Thanks Tournevis!

my artwork | my blog

WRONG!

Where did he get this information? Almost all Noodler's are Ph neutral!

In Greg Clark's "Fountain Pen Inks - A Sampler", he lists many inks, including Noodler's with their Ph rating as well as lightfast and waterproofness. In there, Noodler's is always around the 7.0 range (which equals neutral). Some are 6.4, others 6.7, or 7.1, a few 8.0, but acidic would be a LOW number (around 1, 2, or 3) not higher.

I repeat, Noodler's inks are at or near Ph neutral.

Here's Nathan Tardiff's (the maker of Noodler's inks) article on the fact that all Noodler's inks are Ph neutral:

All Noodler's Ph Neutral

Quink is more acidic than Noodlers!

To add to what Studio717 said, Greg Clark's ink sampler lists Parker Quink Black as having pH of 2; Quink Blue-Black as 2.7; Quink Blue as 2.6; Quink Red as 3.1; and Quink Green as 3.1. These are all far more acidic than any Noodler's ink with a listed pH. (The most acidic of these comes in at 5.7.)

Incidentally, several of the Waterman inks are listed as being fairly acidic as well.

I've had good experiences with Noodler's inks. I tend to use other inks because I prefer their colors or other qualities, but not because Noodler's is prone to damaging my pens.

Don

Experience

He's been in the business of reparing pens for 50 years. That's his source. He's replaced coroded feeders, "countless" he says, for years. I'd trust him over most other sources.

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

Noodler's not suitable for fountain pens? riiiiiiiiiight.

And this pen guru can document this alleged damage? Making these sort of accusations is pretty irresponsible.

Amazon sells Noodlers. Just about any fountain pen shop you can find on the Internet sells Noodlers. Noodlers has, in less than five years, become available all over the world, with specialty inks for the UK, Russia, and the Far East. If there were problems of the kind your nameless pen guru alleges, it would hardly be a secret.

Some people don't care for some of the properties of Noodlers inks, because they don't flow as wet/flow too wet/whatever. But that's a personal preference, not permanent damage of the type you're alleging.

calm please

This site has always been a friendly place. Don't let ink wars mess that up. People can post info from whatever sources they want and others, like me, can choose to take that advice or not. Please, everyone posting here, take a deep breath and relax. It is a lovely weekend in my section of the world and I hope it is for others as well. Lets not make the site moderators come back from their weekends to find a fight going on.

To a point...

But surely ruining a respected reputation with flat out false information is not a part of that?

The Culmers are not nameless

Setting aside the flame, John and Robert Culmer are not nameless Joes talking out of their hat. They are in fact the most trusted restorers of pens in Canada and have been in business for 50+ years, having learned their craft on their father's knee in his shop in Montreal (John is now in London, Ont.). Anyone hanging on the Fountain Pen Network forum can vouch for them. I truly trust their opinion. If Robert says that Noodler's ruins pens, I'll trust him over another opinion. He's forgotten more about pens than I will even know.

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

Sorry, didn't mean to flame

Sorry, didn't mean to flame anyone. I was responding to this from pinkyreeny:

There is a Pen Repair guru in the US that says using Noodler's or one other ink will cancel his repair warranty.

... before I read your original post and edited my response. I didn't see that you had actually claimed this highly derogatory, unsubstatiated, and inflammatory statement as Mr. Culmer's. My bad.

Anyone hanging on the Fountain Pen Network forum can vouch for them. I truly trust their opinion.

Funny, I found my way here *from* FPN. Never heard of them. And again, while there are many, many different viewpoints about the writing qualities of Noodlers inks in various pens, I have heard even come close to making the outrageous claim you are repeating. At third hand, no less.

Here's the difference: the last pen I bought, from Tom "OldGriz" Mullane, was a vintage Parker 51 vacumatic. He suggested I use Diamine or Waterman inks in it, as they tend to flow better that Noodlers. He did *not* say, "Don't use Noodlers - it'll damage your pen!"

It's one thing to say "We prefer Brand X over Brand Y." Or even "We've had better results with Brand X, and that's what I recommend." It's another thing altogether to make bluntly, blatantly false statements ("Noodlers is acidic" and pass along undocumented observations ("replaced countless feeders and seals ruined by Noodlers") as fact.

If you hold Mr. Culmer in such high regard, you might remind him that damaging Noodlers business reputation is actionable. That's how we roll in the US. And if you want to continue taking advise from people whose expert opinions are in fact patently, verifiably false, I guess that's your business.

I appreciate the precision

I am glad we are both clearer on this issue. Thank you for the precision. If you do a search on FPN, you'll find both Culmers mentioned. I've been a luker forever. I understand what other experts have told you; it is duely noted. As for the "actionable" business, you will forgive my very unAmerican reaction of shaking my head in disbelief and promptly walking away for a debate that no longer makes any sense to me.

CIC

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

inky

I couldn't find the guy's site yet. As I remember his problem is with the dyes used not acidity.
I didn't make a reference to any damage.

I'm still gonna look for the info.

I've tried only one Noodler's color, Purple Wampum, and while the color is nice, it feathered on every paper I tried.

Noodlers has been fine for me

Use what you want, trust who you want. However, my belief is that the info about Noodlers being acidic etc is not true. It could be that your sources may have something to pick on Noodlers about. They may not be able to get a contract with them or were not selected to sell the product. Oh well, for me it has been a fine product. It is true that it does not flow as well as some of the other inks as mentioned above. Read other sources on the FPN and you decide. FYI, I also use other inks, Waterman and Pelikan as well as Noodlers.

Hypothesis

Let me posit a possible explanation. What if Robert meant acidic in the sense that it is corrosive. The damage he was describing to me was corrosion damage on the feeders and sceals.

In any case, I'm throwing my hands up and walking away from this debate. It's not worth the fuss in my view.

CIC

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

simple way to figure it out

someone with access to a science lab, or your kid's chem kit, use pH paper. If it turns red, it's acidic. Otherwise, it's not. There.

--------------------------------------------
anyone selling rollabind/circa punch, etc? I'm looking to start.

Found it

The Penguin, Rick Propas is the one who voids his repair warranty if Noodler's is used. He says the same for Private Reserve.

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/penguin0/

Bottom of the page, A Note on Inks.

Link

Hi.

That link doesn't take you to the right place. You have to click the 'about me' page, then scroll to the bottom.

He doesn't say *why* he won't warrant using Noodlers or Private Reserve. A number of the inks he says are fine have been reported elsewhere as highly acidic.

shris

He doesn't say *why*...

He doesn't say *why*

I'm foolish enough to ask.
I'll share any answer I get.

BTW, --here-- is a direct link to the offending statement
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Cork seals?

Perhaps it is this expert's like of repairing with cork seals leads to the stated dissatisfaction with Noodler's and Private Reserve inks?

Calm down, folks

Lisa's right, this is a friendly forum, and no one likes to see flame wars or libel. Let's take care to present hard facts, then let others make up their minds or share their opinions in an open and amiable manner.

Let's remember that many of us are here because we feel passionate about our paper, our pens, our notebooks, our inks, and that --like any other passion-- strong words can lead to strong emotions, can lead to strong reactions. Let's take care not to be swept away by them....

all my best,
dj

Thank you

I appreciate yours and Sara's efforts here. All I meant was to pass along information from someone who knows. Hell is paved with good intentions.

CIC

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

I asked, and he answered

I asked:

On your web site, you say:
"Please note: the use of Private Reserve or Noodlers inks will void The PENguin
warranty. I cannot be responsible for pens in which those inks have been used. "

What, please, is the reason for this ?

While I am not personally familiar with either brand, I have seen many folks
praise Noodlers inks.

What reason do you have to make such a statement ?

And he answered:

Thanks for your inquiry.

Attached is an explanation of my problem with Noodler's inks.

Private Reserve is less toxic and can be used carefully with modern
Pelikans as long as you are willing to tolerate the possibility of
staining. I do not recommend its use with vintage Pelikans.

and the attachment says:

I get asked about Noodler's a lot.

Basically the answer is that the inks are much too saturated, they are not solutions, as inks should be, they are suspensions, and the precipitates can clog pens. In addition, the dyes used by the maker are too saturated and stain pens. Finally Noodler's is made by an amateur chemist with no training. He often appears to have no idea about how some of the chemicals (propolene and ethylene glycol, for example) will react with pens or with other components in the ink. Finally he has a great deal of quality control issues , witness all the mold problems.

Finally some disclosures. I am not a chemist and don't play one. I have never used Noodler's, but have gathered my data directly from users.

Most importantly, I have repaired pens that used Noodler's and have seen the staining and the corrosion of parts I refer to

So, for all those reasons, I strongly recommend against the use of this ink and will not warranty pens in which it is used.

This explanation makes sense to me at one level. I have worked with "pigmented inks" that were described as Not Suitable For Fountain Pens. In my experience, I trashed a few dip pen nibs by letting such inks dry on them.

Interesting.

More thoughts to come
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Just want to make sure folks

Just want to make sure folks understand that dyes and pigments are NOT the same thing, and that only dyes are used in most fountain pen inks. (I'd say all, but I'm sure there's an exception somewhere that I'm not aware of.)

Which is not to say that some pens aren't more fussy than others with different inks. I have a lot of pens, but most are modern and rarely have problems with any fp inks that I've tried. Fortunately, I don't have quite as many inks as pens... ;)

I really can't make any comments, one way or the other, about vintage pens because the only ones I have are a couple of Parker "51"s. I do use Noodler's in them (one has had Noodler's Black in it since I bought it ~4 years ago and it's a daily writer), but they are known for being not only sweet writers but pretty fuss-free as well.

Ygor, a lot of art inks also have shellac in them. You really don't what that in your fountain pen!

From FPN...

OK, I started looking for negative information about Noodler's and frankly did not find any.

But I did find Bill's Observations On Ink on FPN which might put this whole thread into perspective.

What'cha think ?
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

I think that's a good place

I think that's a good place to start, ygor. Thanks for posting the link.

:)

Ink Link: Viscosity, Saturation, Mold, Untested Formulations

Further below is a link to an interesting and informative article on inks in general (Noodler's is not specifically mentioned) that speaks to some of the issues Culmer describes in his response to Ygor. In addition to whether the ink is too saturated, too “toxic” (note, Culmer does not actually use the word acidic), or inclined to become moldy, the viscosity of any given ink may be incompatible with some pens. In other words, it is possible that there may be nothing inherently "wrong" with Noodler's but that there are certain pens it shouldn't be used with. This would not be unique to Noodler's.

Regarding whether Culmer’s recommendations against Noodler’s are arguably actionable as libel or slander, I wouldn’t think so. For the most part he is not making statements of fact, he is giving his opinions. For those statements that are not susceptible to opinion, truth would be a complete defense; take as an example his comment about mold.

I have no idea whether Noodler's has a tendency to become moldy or not, but Culmer seems emphatic on this point. My guess is he can document some examples.

http://www.rickconner.net/penspotters/inks.html
EXCERPT
"Do I have to use the same brand of ink as the pen?
… Some makers may "calibrate" the feeds of their pens to work with a certain viscosity of ink … but this is a rather rough calibration that could probably be met as well or even better by other brands of ink.

Some manufacturers claim that they'll void your warranty (if any) if you use another brand of ink, but I suspect this is just a way to get them off the hook if you use some grossly unsuitable substance like pig's blood or root beer (don't laugh, you haven't seen what people send back to the factory for repair!). On the other hand, if the manufacturer can point to staining or pitting that might have been caused by some of the more outlandish inks available today, he will have good grounds to reject a warranty claim.

…Make sure that the product is clearly labeled as "fountain pen ink." …Note my comments elsewhere about brightly-colored or deeply-saturated inks, or fairly new (and untested) formulations, as well as mixing of inks."

~Cath

Some of the other considerations

I agree. I'm definitely not going to weigh in on the which inks poison pens issue. However, I've found the following which may be of practical significance. Although I love the dark colors of Noodler's and Private Reserve, I've found that if you have paper that's not quite fountain pen friendly but also not quite paper towel quality either, then choosing a manufacturer's less intense blue or blue-black ink (Waterman, Parker Quink) with a fine nib pen, will allow you to use the lower quality paper with satisfactory results. Of course, if I'm using good quality paper, I'll go right for the fun of saturated inks (and I don't usually use vintage museum quality pens). But, unfortunately, in many contexts, I often go with the typical Staples pads and spiral bound books my company is willing to pay for, where the paper quality is meant for ball points.

Noodler's ink...

It seems that you haven't really done your research...instead of listening only to Mr Culmer, simply look at the Noodler's tests...http://www.noodlersink.com/Ph%20Test.html

Now decide...

:)

There is a lot of good info supplied in this thread. One must always consider the source of info. In terms of all products, one might not put full weight into information supplied by the company in question. It is all up to individual and the info given here will allow everyone to make up their own minds :)

my artwork | my blog

I've been thinking hard

I've been thinking hard about this problem since the thread started... I love my pens. I am forced by circumstances to use Noodler's inks if I want to keep using my pens. Dilemma.

For background, I'm a fountain pen herder: I have dozens of pens, mostly in the inexpensive range ($10 to $100). I have written exclusively with FPs, dozens of pages a day, for over 15 years now. My daily writers are a Namiki Vanishing Point with a medium nib, a Pelikan 415 (modern), and another pen depending on the mood, usually modern but sometimes vintage. I prefer steel nibs and fine to medium nibs.

Because not all my notes are transcribed into the computer or photocopied, and because I live in Vancouver (where it rains A LOT), I have chosen to write with Noodler's waterproof ink since I have started my PhD two years ago. Losing my notes or seeing my research diary destroyed would be a true catastrophy. I've gone through about 7oz of the Noodler's stuff so far in the "Swishmix" version (not absolutely as waterproof as the other waterproof version, but very waterproof compared to all other inks, including Namiki Blue which is pretty much the best "manufacturer-produced" ink in that regard out there), in two shades of blue.

I have observed no clogging whatsover, which is great because I have found some VPs to be a bit finicky sometimes. I have been terribly bad at cleaning pens these last two years, I don't think I have cleaned the VP or the Pelikan at all.

I have had my papers rained on and glasses of water spilled in the vicinity of my notebooks, the pages have curled, but the words have stayed on the page. Other inks, including my favourite Waterman, would have left a sorry, unreadable mess. Interestingly, the pens themselves haven't been stained, but they're not plastic pens, so unlikely to become stained anyway.

So Noodler's is there to stay. I would probably not put it in my vintage pens, but even then... For me, pens are meant for writing (words that I will still be able to read in the future), and if it means having to be repaired every two or three years well it's better than my bike, which requires about monthly maintenance and hundreds of dollars in repairs/upgrades. And I don't even use it for work, just for fun! Even if I eventually have to put one pen "to sleep" (most likely in a drawer), it will still have had at least a couple of years of use,
"lots of mileage".

Noodler's

I've spoken to Pelikan repair about this issue and was told that the problem is with permanent Noodler's. According to Pelikan, regular Noodler's inks are OK but the waterproof or permanent reportedly leads to a higher number of repairs. After I filled my Mont Blanc 149 with Noodler's bulletproof black, it began to leak from the piston knob...and is now in Mont Blanc repair. Coincidence? Maybe...but I'm using Pelikan in my Pelican and Mont Blanc in my Mont Blanc from now on. Parker Quink jet black is a very good alternative as well...I'd rather play it safe than sorry.

Hmm... I wonder if that might explain

the leaking twist converter (piston) in my Sheaffer Prelude? I had a Prelude that I filled several times with Noodler/Swisher Gulfstream Blue, one of the permanent inks. I found out one day, fortunately not too messily, that the converter was leaking by the knob, and had filled the barrel of the pen with ink. Fortunately, the Prelude barrel is a metal one piece barrel or it might have leaked all over my shirt. I like the ink, but not the possibility that it might be a problem for some pens.

Walter

-----------------------
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
B. Banzai?

The word from Swisher Pens...

I corresponded with Chuck Swisher, of Swisher Pens (www.swisherpens.com) regarding the alleged acidity of Noodler's inks. Swisher sells Noodler's inks and special edition inks made for them by Noodler's. I'll quote his response.
------
"Dear Walter,

From all of the reports I've heard about Noodler's inks they are about the most neutral inks made for fountain pen use. I have been using these inks since they were first introduced in both vintage and modern pens and have not had any problems. I also know of several repair persons that sell Noodler's inks. I read that the fellow saying it would void his warranty had never personally tried any of these inks. I'm not saying that this ink might not leak around faulty seals, but I don't believe this ink caused the seal to fail. I am not a chemist but as someone that has used this ink (Swishmix) almost exclusively for the past few years I have a hard time believing that Noodler's inks are any more harmful to a fountain pen in proper working order than any of the other brands of ink made today.

Best wishes,

Chuck Swisher"
--------
I understand that some pen sellers or repair persons don't recommend Noodler's, Private Reserve, or any inks that are densely pigmented or strong dyes. Many don't recommend red or purple inks in vintage pens because these might stain the transparent barrels or visualated sections of vintage pens, decreasing their value. With modern pens that use cartridges or converters, that's not such a big deal. I use Waterman ink for my vintage pens because many have transparent barrels that I don't want to get stained. I like Noodler's permanent inks because there's nothing else that will work in a fountain pen that's permanent. I like some of the Private Reserve inks too because the colors are just fantastic, but I'm careful in which pens I use those. The late Earl Shigemoto (Honolulu Pen Shop) assured me that the Private Reserve inks were safe for any fountain pen.

So, I guess it's up to the individual. Everybody's got their own preferences. We're just so lucky to have so many great choices. Long live fountain pens!

Aloha,
Walter

-----------------------
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
B. Banzai?

I spoke to the distributor

I spoke to the distributor of Noodler's and he also defended the ink. Noodler's makes ink for Swisher Pens so, it's not a surprise they would defend it. However, if I'm going to make a mistake I'd prefer to do so…on the side of caution or prevention. If I have an expensive pen that I enjoy, I'd rather use Waterman's ink which flows and writes great and gives no maintenance problems than Noodler's that might send it for repair sooner than necessary. After trying Aurora, Mont Blanc, Swishmix, Noodler's, Pelikan, and Parker-- I wound up going back to Waterman's because it has no problems compared to the others. Waterproof and permanent is nice but a great writing long lasting fine fountain pen is better. The Mont Blanc 149 I sent for overhaul was given to me by my 93 year old father. I'll never Noodle it again...
Time is the measure of change.

Leaking Prelude Piston

I'm having the same problem with the piston in my Prelude. I go back and forth between Skrip (Sheaffer's house ink) and Private Reserve, both leak equally bad. Does anybody know if this is just a problem with the Prelude piston in general, or did the poster and I just get defective ones?

-Dave

base-rate fallacy

Experience fails Robert Culmer here. He may be a pen guru, but needs to brush up on basic reasoning skills. Hasn't he heard of the base-rate fallacy? Or of illusory correlations? One can not draw any conclusions about the number of feeders and seals replaced that had been filled with Noodler's (even if the number is countless). Why? Because in order to do so, you have to know how many people in the world (or whatever population you are getting clients from) are using Noodler's and how many people are using each other kind of ink (the base-rate). Noodler's has become a popular ink in the last few years. Assuming that the fountain pen using population and and the number of those needing repairs has been fairly constant, just by numbers alone you would expect more repairs on pens filled with Noodler's ink simply because more people are using it in their pens. If suddenly Quink became much more popular you would probably have "countless" repairs done on pens filled with Quink instead.

I dont know what your

I dont know what your talking about maybe its some other brand but ive been using The Fountain Pen Hospital's Noodlers Ink for years and all my pens are still intact. India ink is a no no though. Never been to the store you are talking about but the Fountain Pen Hospital is the largest pen store in North America and ive been buying from them for a looooong time. I was at their store today.

Proud owner of a Newton 2100
-Leicamaster

The Official Pelikan Service

The Official Pelikan Service in both USA and EUROPE does void the warranty if Noodler's inks are used in their pens. Most knowledgeable pen restorers recommend avoiding them in bulk. The pH has nothing to do with an ink being safe, is just a selling trick. The solvents used in that amateur ink are the ones that damage the pens, clog them and even eat them up ( Bay State Series). So there is no polemic, there are facts.

Do they void the warranty for any other inks?

The anti-Noodler's crowd is an interesting one, as, I suppose, are the pro-Noodler's crowd (of which, I suppose, I am a member).

To ask the obvious next question, Mora, does Pelikan (and all of the other cited restorers and warranty service organizations from this thread) only void coverage for Noodlers, or just any non-endorsed-brand ink.

Similarly, accusations of "amateur" are really just ad hominem attacks - chemicals are chemicals, how you use them and in what concentrations doesn't reflect your expertise in and of itself. Of course, I'd be willing to bet no one knows which exact solvents are in use, nor whether the Noodler's choices are actually "safer" or not, just what the pen repairers they've talked to about the problem have to say.

Also, the "facts" you quote are just facts of policy, you haven't actually disclosed any facts that are relevant to the underlying issue.

All of that said, I like my inexpensive, not-rare fountain pens, and appreciate the domestically manufactured, somewhat eccentric quality of the company, as well as the superb capabilities of the ink. In any case of any product, it's up to you to decide whether to use the "official", "endorsed", or whatever complementary products or not. I have a similar problem with the 2-stroke oil for a scooter of mine - I've saved roughly $300 on supplies over the course of 7000 miles purely by using a cheaper alternative than the manufacturer recommended. My choice, my possible loss of warranty, but also my savings (or, in Noodler's case, the option of an intense, indelible fountain pen ink).

Cheers!

There are many lines of Noodler's ink.

Bulletproof, Eternal, Freeze resistant and waterproof.

I bought one of the regular Noodler fountain pen ink in magenta to match my magenta pens.

I only use modern fountain pens under the $100 range.

I have been using fountain pens for many decades and have been a member of FPN almost since its creation.

It is known that highly saturated ink in the red, pink and purple color range will stain pens.

I didn't store one of my pen properly and the very light pink non Noodler ink that was in it stained part of the cap.

Pelikan and other piston fillers or pens with an ink window have a greater likelihood of being stained by highly saturated inks, especially if the piston's seal is old or the pen is used in dry climates or in houses/offices with drying air conditioner.

Any ink left long enough in a fountain pen will clog and damage the feed, maintenance and cleaning is just part of using fountain pens.

It is also true that bad paper can accumulate "fuzz" on the nib and make the pen unusable, it happened to two of my fountain pens, they were filled exclusively with Waterman Florida Blue, so I know the ink is not to blame.

I have no experience with Noodler's specialty inks, I have read posts on FPN linking Baystate Blue use with Lamy All-Star Ocean Blue feed failures.

However, before blaming one ink brand for a lot of pens failures, one has to remember that daily use of a fountain pen in a myriad of environments, (dry, freezing, hot, cold, at high then low altitudes, inside a pocket wallet subjected to body heat or in a pen case in a purse moved around all day) and with all kind of papers (fountain pen friendly or not) will take a toll on any pen, especially a vintage one.

I am grateful for Noodler existence and the broad spectrum of colors Nathan has worked hard to offer to fountain pen users.

It is also easier for pen repairers to blame Noodler than to risk offending clients by telling them repeatedly that they shouldn't use very cheap paper and that regular cleaning is part of fountain pen ownership, especially if the pen is a piston filler.

Real reason behind a lot of anti-Noodler's comments

PLEASE READ
I believe Tournevis' original comment was genuinely trying to be helpful, and the comment on 'acidic' was in fact a mistake in terminology. As others have pointed out, Noodler's is pH neutral, or as close to it as any inks get. Meaning they are not leaning towards acid or base.

Some of the further comments, and ones that will surely spring up from this point on may have ulterior motives. Noodler's ink is one of the most popular and also one of the most despised. Nathan is rather eccentric and also doesn't mind sharing his political views. Many people that disagree with him politically have flooded threads on the forums as some sort of vendetta to discredit him.

If you go to FPN, you can find them state in one thread that they'll never buy another one of his products because of one of his ink's has a particular message on it. Note down the name of that user and watch how often they will now pop up in all the other Noodler's threads stating how this ink stinks or his new pens have this problem which make them unsuitable for their use. These same users go in thread after thread and find blogs and places such as this to continue spitting their vitriol against him.

Noodler's is a saturated ink (as are others), and if you don't take care of your pens there is a chance for clogging and other issues. If you don't want to take care of your pen, buy something like Watermans. If you can't be bothered with simple maintenance and care (like not letting ink sit for months in the pen, or leaving the cap off) I don't know why you are bothering with a fountain pen in the first place.

Some people do have problems, Baystate Blue requires additional caution. But I find it disgusting that people seek to mislead and misinform others because they don't like someone or their views. That type of behaviour undermines the type of consumer advocacy Tournevis was trying to promote, albeit poorly worded.

Me, I will continue to use Noodler's. They are some of my favorite inks. If you don't want to use them, there are plenty of alternatives, I hope you find something you enjoy writing with!

As a final note, for those that don't understand why people were taking offense at Noodler's being called acidic. Acidic is a term that is often misused. Acids are solutions with a low pH, where bases are higher. The scale used is 0 to 14, with 7 being considered neutral, with distilled water considered the 'standard'. Noodler's inks were designed to remain as close to neutral as possible, whereas many inks vary widely on the scale. Because of this, calling Noodler's acidic would just leave anyone that knows about the topic with their jaw's gaping. This doesn't say it can't chemically react with things, for instance Lye is 13 (extremely basic) and can burn flesh from your bones(first rule about ink club).

Noodler's Bulletproof Black for meeeeee!

Robert Culmer and La Maison du Stylo have been OUT OF BUSINESS for 2 years now.

Noodler's Inks still flowing strong and has even made its way into the White House ;)

Well, this thread IS 3 years old

:)
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson) ***

I posted because the thread

I posted because the thread shows up in Google searches and I didn't want people getting misled. Plus it seems to get a post or two every few months so I didn't feel it was a 'dead thread'. ;)